First off, let me admit to being completely addicted to cyclocross. I can't get enough. The race ends and, after I finally catch my breath and stop feeling like I'm going to puke, I find myself feeling a little sad that I have to wait another week for the next race.
I also have a lot of spare time on my hands these days. Hanging out in the library all day is good, but you can only do it for so long. Since I don't really know anybody here--and don't particularly want to put in the effort required to change that--I mostly end up taking coffee breaks to talk to myself. Fortunately, there are all kinds of great coffee shops on campus. And I'm easy to entertain. So here are a few ideas that have emerged out of those conversations with myself in the last little while. Some are no doubt better than others. Take them for whatever they're worth. There are no doubt more and better ideas out there. But now's the time to start thinking about next year.
CX in MB is already good. But it could be even better.
1) Longer Season
Starting in mid-September leaves us with just a two month season. That's too short. In Winnipeg, cyclocross weather arrives already in mid-August.
2) Altona Grand Prix
What if we were to add a second race in Altona? It sounds like we might be able to use the motocross course, just outside of town. So two races on two entirely different courses. Motocross Cross on Saturday and Southern Cross on Sunday. The time in between will be filled with a big party. Pixie cross in the afternoon, indoor flat track races in the evening, consumption of the Big Beer Primes, and all manner of other goofy bike-related competitions. It sounds like we might also have access to the main floor of the curling club. Having said that, we don't want to screw up a good thing. And Southern Cross the past few years has been more than good. Would people be willing to stick around for two races? Perhaps even travel from, say, Lethbridge. If it's early enough, there's camping. If not, perhaps the many FGBC connected folks would be willing to host a racer or two for the night.
3) Colert Cross
The area in and around Colert Beach in Morden would be perfect for a cx race. Lots of sand, a boardwalk, hills, gravel, and perhaps even some of the lake trail. And the folks at Tinker always put on a good race. I suspect such an event would bring out the locals the same way we've been able to do in Altona.
4) Enduro Cross
Morden/Tinker would work well for this too. Something like the Eden ride, but a round-trip. This would be the conclusion to the MUERTO series.
5) Night race
Everyone else is doing it.
6) Folklorama Cross
We already have the cyclocross booth at Belgian Pavilion. Why not run an actual race sometime during the weekend of Folklorama? There’s no reason we can’t race cyclocross in mid-August. If nothing else, it would provide one more thing we could say to the people who wander by the booth.
7) Menno Cross IV
Next year, it will be part of the CMU Homecoming festivities. It's already scheduled for Saturday, Sept. 26. This will mean more participants, more fans, and generally more good times. Is there any reason it should not be part of the regular 'cross calendar?
8) Points series
Six races in three “double cross” weekends. Altona could be one, if we expand to two races; the Belgian Club might be another. I'd race there two days in a row, especially if there's a party at the Belgian Club in between.
9) Spring Cyclcocross
Why not? Say 4-6 races. On Wednesday nights when there aren't other races going on. There would be time constraints, so only one big starting group.
Thoughts?
Wednesday, November 19, 2008
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31 comments:
you need another hobby. seriously.
oh, that first comment was me BTW.
kevin b
My other hobbies are secret.
he already has a budding bike poster making thing going... more races = more posters...
how would this work with the muerto races?
"secret hobbies" ... don't tell you mom.
Point 1. Absolutely right. It is pretty hard to peak for cross (e.g., Nationals) with such a short season. Likewise, it is so much fun that you would think it should be illegal.
Point 2 & 3: I will definitely try and come out of both races. In fact, I will try and bring 'new' people to each 'new' race.
Point 4: I really like that area, but think the lack of elevation is a little disappointing. I am in, however, and will try and free up some time to help out with this one. Birch has the chalet, which is very nice when the warm weather goes back south ;0
Point 9: Bring it on!
Spring cross would be kick ass...
...we should just run cross all summer... its the most fun....
sounds like a plan. as long as we don't crowd the other disciplines i think it is cool - of course the other disciplines need some retooling to make them as much fun as cross, which i think is coming.
not convinced on double crosses, more convinced that races that made accessibility a priority are the better way to go. does winnipeg have the numbers to do double crosses? not really, most people can only commit one half day a weekend to bike racing - just make sure that if you put on a race make damn sure that it is an event and ton of fun.
don't know if folkarama cross would work - you think that mca races and rules are restrictive, wait till you see their rules. unless you had lights and allowed people to wander around with beer (now that would be fun) i have a tough time seeing how folkarama cross would work.
enduro cross will take place in morden this year - coach dave, don't worry about hills you will get hills that will make you hurt in morden/
mucr will run a point series next year - details were worked and it almost happened this year but we ran out of time (that and some of us were a little burned out by the time it came around to put this in place).
spring cross - bring it on as long as it doesn't interfere with the others
Some comments:
1) Summer Cross? Yes.
2) Folklarama? If they're too difficult, screw 'em. There are other venues.
3) Altona Grand Prix. Johnny S has convinved me that it doesn't make sense, for a variety of good reasons? "Johnny S" and "good reasons" in the same sentence? Yes, I'm shocked too. But he's right. But look for Darp Cross in Neubergthal this spring. Big Beer Primes and barns.
4) Enduro Cross: Tinker would be sweet. Birch would be sweet. I don't really have a preference, so long as it happens and someone else organizes it.
5) Double Cross. Halberto's not sold. That's okay. But there are a variety of ways to look at it. Let's say 31 people race on Saturday and 31 on Sunday, but it's not the same 31 people. Is it a failure because some only raced once? That seems to be the implication. But it also means that 40 people raced at least once. This is a good thing. Some tend have conflicts on Saturday, some tend to have conflicts on Sunday. Some never seem to have any conflicts. But one nice thing about double cross weekends is that it creates a wider range of opportunities to get out and race. I don't see why we shouldn't have 2-3 per year. If you put on good events and promote them properly, people will show up.
uh...you can do all this and more if you just race your cross bike for every discipline, it has been done....my $0.02
I like alot of these ideas, and I love the discussion that's following.
So... Alberto raised one constraint (not an insurmountable challenge, just a constraint); the amount of available days on the calendar.
I'd like to raise another: human resources. We need more people to help (and, specifically, to lead) with events.
The benefits of this would be multi-fold: less burnout, greater variety of courses/course design, more capacity built (which in turn means a more resilient cycling community).
The volunteers we have are great and they make the events we currently have work, but I think if there is interest in adding more events, we need to think about growing the pool of marshalls, set-up/teardown people, and organizers. And probably race officials too, though that's more the MCA's purview I suppose.
You’re right to raise the point about human resources. Take a quick look at last year’s race calendar. Two-thirds of the races are organized by just two clubs: Olympia and Woodcock. The remaining third of the races are shared by seven other clubs. In cyclocross those two clubs run an even greater percentage of the races. That kind of distribution of the workload seems less than desirable. And yet there’s reason to be optimistic. A number of new clubs that have gotten involved in putting on races in the last few years, such as FGBC, JYD, Tinker Creek. Cyclocross in Altona has been a success and Johnny S and Co. indicate that they are willing to do more. The seeds for Darp Cross have been sewn. The Back 40 was equally successful. This is why I threw out the option of the race at Colert Beach. There's no reason it can’t do what Altona has done. Unless, of course, nobody out there is interested. But there are signs of new growth here. Perhaps this is where we should be looking for new ideas.
As for the MCA, I simply don’t see why Wednesday night races—mtb, cx, or otherwise—need to be run through their apparatus. The MCA is our local conduit to national and international cycling bodies. There’s good reason for wanting a number of races in a variety of disciplines to be organized that way. But there’s also a place for club races and training races that bypass some of the bureaucracy, regulations, and organizational hassles. These needn’t be any less organized. Some Tuesday night at the F&H I’ll tell you all about my friend Ali and the early Saturday morning club races in Central Park, NYC. Granted it’s NYC and therefore huge. So huge, in fact, that the club had a number of sub-clubs, some of which provided their riders with free bikes. There are several hundred racers with motorcycles in the front and rear. Seriously. But the point is this does not take place under the larger umbrella of any sort of external governing body. Notice that when you point to "accessibility" as a criterion of success (here I assume you mean Altona, Woodhaven, and other "license optional" races), you're looking to the outer boundaries of what a typical sanctioned race looks like.
Great ideas guys, and I wish the road side of the sport showed this much enthusiasm.... what has to happen is ALL affiliated clubs MUST become involved and put on events... I think unorganized races like turkey cross or menno cross through the year are probably a better idea than trying to work around the road and mtb sched.. there are ALWAYS gaps in the schedule.. past trends have shown the road season basically "shuts down" in July around here... I think the season could easily start labor day long weekend and continue until early November easilty with a race EVERY weekend... if theres a race, the hardcores will come.. I also suggest a points system with an overall champion like the road cup used to do... Just a few ideas...
Energy and ideas need to be directed towards fixing what we currently have before thinking of adding other events. We don't need more events which will compete with actual MCA calendar events and will potentially decrease the attendance even further. If you don't currently agree with the direction of the MCA take the time to attend the AGA this coming weekend and do your part to make a difference.
Dr. Divisive strikes again.
ok, i don't want to pretend i am a cross racer. it is just not my thing. but like paddy said, just show up to the other races on your cross bike. (support the other races).
i don't think the answer to all the ills with the racing scene in MB is 30 cross races... in case you have not noticed, it is the same 20 old guys doing cross races.
kevin b
I'm sure I'd love the cross racing as well, but I would have to travel 2hrs for a 50min race.... that's what stops me. I also think that is why there is a good turnout, because for most people, there is no driving (or little) needed which, in turn means less dough to play.
Hmmm, maybe I should move to the flatlands.
It's still great that you guys do cross, I just hope it doesn't harm the other events...
And Mr. Campy, I share the enthusiasm for road/MTB , just don't have a team yet! And why does it stop in July?
i think it is important to remember that races run through the mca are insured and i think that is an important item to consider. now i am not sure if that means you are always 100% protected, they saw that you can always be sued no matter how many forms you sign, but it does at least offer some level of protection for the organizers, participants, spectators (the few), and the public. races that we do as friends are one thing, races you do outside of that group assume a risk - you never know when things could go bad, most likely won't, but easily could. if clubs tried to pick this up on their own, outside of the mca, the races would be more expensive unless they get someone to help pick up the costs (thank you town of altona and to all those who volunteer as medics). the question is, do you want to participate in a race without medics and insurance, not a throw down, but an actual race. sure clubs can put on races, but why not do it with an organization that wants to help rather then hinder (really, they do want to help)
i don't think the ills of bike racing in manitoba have anything to do with whether or not the event is run through the mca; the mca offers more than it takes away from any type of racing: organization, guidance, equipment, volunteers, etc. the mca is changing and needs the input and help of all cyclists. when it comes down to it manitoba is too small to run cycling through clubs; numbers give you the ability to organize races and events, not clubs. i think things will change with the mca this year; let's not let the past cloud the potential that is there.
The trend is in July, most of the road riders end up going to Superweek, and it seems to be more built into a Manitoba schedule... unfortuneatly for those that don't goto Superweek, there are hardly any July races on the sched, and August is normally the same... this leaves a few options... find weekend Minnesota road races, or just form your own evening jam sessions like we do... some of our Wednesday evening hammerfests in BHP were the size of the reguar road pack and averaged the same speed as the race...
As for the AGM meeting this weekend, the time to come and voice your opinion was about 3 weeks ago at that meeting...
amen hal.
the mtb and road schedule has had very few races in July and August the fast few years for a couple of reasons.
1 - they don't think anyone will come due to summer holidays etc.
2 - so provincial team members can race here and at national and international events... (but as paddy pointed out in January at the scheduling meeting, prov team member don't care about the MB schedule - and he was right)
we are often done 3 MTB cup races by the end of May...
kevin b
Perfect. So cyclocross begins in July and August.
MCA . . . ugh. I'm not sure if you're not listening or I'm not being clear. Probably the latter. But the last time I checked, the MCA didn't have a monopoly on insurance. In most states and provinces that I'm aware of, there two independent but overlapping race scenes. One organized by the MCA equivalent. And the other organized by clubs, independent promotors, etc. Both are organized and insured. I'm not thinking about alleycats and throwdowns here. Of course, many of the same people show up at both. But it's typically the latter where most of the innovation occurs. And it's not surprising that they tend to be better attended. That's certainly the case down here in NC. My comments mostly reflect a growing appreciation of something that simply does not exist in MB. If you want some examples, think of all the races Team Dicky talks about. But that only scratches the surface. And this description applies equally to road, mtb, and cx. I am merely trying to suggest that this might be something worth considering in MB too. It would free up the MCA to concentrate on what it does best and what it is really for. And it would free up space for all sorts of other possibilities that generally don't happen now because that's not what the MCA does.
economies of scale make a big difference. north carolina with almost 9 million people makes it easier to run multi series events. i agree that there is a lot of neat things happening in the states with their racing - i'm addicted to 24 hours of 9 mile which is such a fun race i don't want to ever miss a year as long as i am racing. there is no reason we can't do the same thing here with the help of the mca.
private insurance is fine. say you get private insurance that will cost $300 an event (this is what we paid for altona). if you get 50 riders, $6 dollars a person not too bad, if you get 30 riders like we did at provincials and supercross then its $10 a person on top of the other fees you need to charge to run the race. if you can get someone to pick up the tab on that's great (and this would be a good thing), if you don't the races cost more. BC has a private insurance race series maybe we could do that too but that is a ton of work. the problem arises if you don't get someone to pick up the insurance tab or have enough people who will support it (i don't think we have that population at this moment). right now we have barely enough people to organize a race let alone finding sponsors for that sort of thing - maybe it will happen, i wish it would. i honestly believe that best deal insurance wise is still the mca. i don't buy the argument that it is too expensive; $90 for racing license gets you all the cross races, a couple of cup races, a few wednesday night races, etc. its only tough if you chose to do 3-4 races a year - if we can figure out a way to get more event insurance...
the argument that the mca is not flexible and too bureaucratic may have held water in the past but i think things are going to change. yes they dropped the ball on the website and that was inexcusable; this too will be better. if you spend some time talking to some of the board members and the director things will be different this season; they are really interested in giving riders what they want. i am if it did not look like it was going to change then i would be first in line to organize something different. things are changing at the mca and they will be open to innovation in racing, they've said as much at the open forum.
This is interesting. Clearly we’re working with a different set of assumptions here. I’m all too happy to have my assumptions shown to be wrongheaded. That happens all the time. But it’s in trying to spell them out clearly that fruitful discussions can emerge.
I think the issue of economies of scale is factor that has more to do with the number of successful events that can happen. Other than a few obvious cases, I don’t think it is a factor in the kind of event that is possible.
I agree licenses are the best deal, financially speaking. But only if you’re relatively serious about racing. That’s why I buy one every year—even if I’m on the less serious end of the spectrum of seriousness. This, in my opinion, is where the MCA’s focus should be—the kind of serious racer who buys a license and wants to race as much as possible. It is, after all, a cycling association. But there still are a lot of people out there who will do an occasional race or two. And there are events that can be geared toward them and still be attractive to the more serious racer. That’s the genius of 24 Hour races. You get teams of recreational riders to come together which makes it possible for a bunch of nut jobs to kill themselves by riding in circles for 24 hours. Other endurance races can be successful here to. Reach the Beach, etc. And cyclocross too. But a straight-up 3 hour road race? Probably not. Or so the evidence seems to suggest.
What I’m not convinced about is that it is in the MCA’s best interest (or those of us who buy licenses) to morph itself in order to accommodate this sort of scene. Maybe I’m wrong.
So another way to put it, I suppose, is to say that I’m not so sure the problem is with the MCA. My attempt to direct our attention elsewhere speaks less to it and more to the larger question of rike-realted events in MB. Perhaps the problem is the assumption that the MCA should be able to do anything and everything and complaining when it doesn’t happen rather than going out on a limb and making it happen on your own. You’re right that this takes a lot of work. That’s why it doesn’t happen. It also doesn't happen because the same 10 people who think about putting on events also want to race in them. But that’s also another reason why cx is successful. It’s relatively easy to put on a great event compared to, say, a 24 hour race. And having 10-15 people line up to start a cx race feels less disappointing that the same number showing up at a 2 hour mtb race.
I think that when your schedule allows you to be back in MB and Canada, we all would be happy to see your ideas take flight. Unfortunately you are there, and we are here working with the MCA, its clubs and its riders. Talk is good, but actions speak louder than words.
Moni
discussion is great, it is the first step to change and actions follow.
the fgbc is about action as much as discussion - successful cross races in altona, menno cross and the general good times and open attitude to cycling are evidence of that.
chris,
i totally get where your head is at. 2 years ago, i was think along the same lines. let's just do our own thing already!
to be honest, I think there is a different mindset going on, that in the future the MCA may attempt to do LESS races, but much better run races.
maybe you need to head up - a grass roots racing program? seriously you should contact Ron about this. he is really open minded, he may have some ideas how this could happen easier. who knows? something that could also be done in other locals like Brandon?
the realities are, insurance is needed for organized events. the "extra" insurance at some events is done through the MCA and is small FRACTION of the cost you or I would pay to have an event.
so I would encourage you to also use your enthusiasm to help out.
kevin b
Next year. For now, I must lob ideas like grenades from a distance.
Quality ahead of quantity. Yes.
Hearing you and Hal singing a chorus of optimism is encouraging. Can't wait to see what sorts of mtb races you come up with for me to finish last in.
I've got some other ideas in the works. More along the lines of MUERTO. But more on that later.
the thinking is there are too many crappy races.
i don't know if there needs to be less, I think many of them could be done much better. i still think most of that falls on the clubs, not the MCA. clubs hold the races, not the MCA. they just help facilitate it all.
lets face it, the MCA was in neutral and no one in the drivers seat for the last few years. the MCA has great ED right now, if it has a chance to improve greatly, now is the time.
kevin b
i need a cross bike. bad.
You have until spring to get a plan figured out.
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